Lauri Kurki is here to talk about what sales is and how Salesforce aids sales business. Why we developers might wanna learn sales? Let’s tune in!
Main Points
- Lauri’s introduction
- The gap between sales and solutions built in Salesforce platform
- Break down sales into various layers of knowledge
- What to discuss with customers even before building the solutions
- Understand customer’s business and propose for improvement
- Dealing with four different types of customers, using iPhone selling as an example
- Upsell skill
- Developers’ selling advantage
Links
Contact Me
If you enjoy this podcast, please reach me out to let me know your thoughts or simply say Hello. My (Xi’s) contact info:
Take care, until next time :)!
Transcript
AI-generated, unedited.
[00:00] Hey, this is Salesforce Way podcast episode eleven.
[00:18] In this episode, we're totally shifting gears. Not anymore on the technical stuff. Our guest Lauri Kurki drops by to talk about what sales really is, with great examples. What common misconceptions exist about sales, and what we as developers can learn more on this subject to do better selling. So let's start our session now, shall we?
[00:48] Hey
[00:55] everybody, Xi Xiao here from SalesforceWay. com. Today we have a new session. We are gonna talk about sales. And in our podcast, because we are technical focused podcast, so usually we talk about the technical platform, how to write the good code, how to be a good developer. But in this session, we want to take a different aspect. We want to understand who we are really serving from our solutions, and how and what we should learn from the people who are doing the sales. So, today we have our guest with me is Lauri Kurki. Yeah. So, Lauri, could you introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Lauri Kurki. I work as a Salesforce consultant in in company in Finland called Beat. My background is that I used to work in sales and sales management company called Medico International over six years. And while working there, my daily routines were, you know, coaching. Sales reps, coaching, sales managers, building up processes, coming up with KPIs, and how to manage people, and and after working there for many years. I wanted to go and and study even deeper what's going on in sales and in sales management. So, I enrolled to MBA
[02:25] to University of Jyväskylä in Finland. And I studied how we could gamify management systems, sales management systems, and what we need to take into consideration when you know building up CRM systems or when coaching people how we use the systems that we have. And then also one of the key aspects was when we recruited people, how we onboard them. And make them produce money really fast. What are the elements in there? How we make them stay longer with the companies, and then also when they leave, you know, there is a huge pipeline. For example, what we're gonna do in order to maintain the pipeline and and maintain the level that the ex colleague of ours who then left. How are we going to get the pipeline with the same hit rate, or even actually a better one? And from your point of view, is likely in general the sales the concept for me, because I'm a developer, the Salesforce platform. I see those pipelines, the opportunity management, the people management. Those things are already baked in in the Salesforce platform. So here we try to find this kind of a synergy, right? What's the sales? What is the Salesforce platform? And why do we need to understand the gaps in
[03:55] between? Yeah. Yeah. Well, in many cases, when I go and visit a customer, the the main problem is that the system is not actually built. To support their sales, or different sales channels, in many cases Salesforce we have this pipeline where we get opportunities and then different stages of that. Right, but if we Go and look. That we have key accounts. We might have some channel sales via partners, for example. We might have web store. We might have tele sales, field sales, field service. They all have different processes. Right, and we need to manage key accounts totally different compared to these one clients that are buying once or twice from us. And when talking about, for example, for key accounts, we might have a yearly agreement with them that they are going to buy. With one million euros, but that one million euro has two thousand, you know, transactions within it, and there's no way that we're gonna do two thousand transactions for that one key account, following the whole process that we have built to Salesforce, right? Yeah, right. So what's the method then to to follow the sales of the key account?
[05:26] And then, when we are building the Salesforce, we need to take into consideration what are the you know the the goals for telesales or for web store or for marketing or for key accounts or then partner sales, and how we then measure, follow. Lead guide whatever these processes and these people who are in these different segments. Okay. So we need to understand that Salesforce, as many probably listeners of this podcast series, knows that Salesforce is not just about the pipeline or opportunity funnel, but it's much more. But in many cases, when we are building Salesforce. For some reason, it's only the opportunity funnel that we are actually the building together with leads and contacts and and then companies or accounts as we we call them. So, you mentioned many customers. They don't have a clear picture. How what what are the what are the good process to to deal with different type of customers, right? Like key accounts. Yeah. Or yeah. Or they might have, but they are not using Salesforce for it. Right. Right. Or if they are using, they are not using it the efficient way, and the main reason for that is the customers. They don't know. They don't know that we we
[06:56] have many different clouds in Salesforce, or they might have a totally different cloud that doesn't you know speak with their Salesforce cloud, sales cloud, okay, and and then if there's an integration. All the data that is, you know, moving via the integration, is that data actually the needed data? Is there something else that we should have? And. That's why, in my perspective, and what we do with our company today is, before we even start to. Do anything with the Salesforce. We need to understand the business. We need to understand what are the goals of the business. For example, is it they they wanna you know get better revenue? They wanna get better margins. They wanna get better churn. They wanna get better NPS or whatever. And then after that, we need to start thinking for you know field sales or telesales or key account sales or partner sales. How this department will achieve the business goals. So after the business goals, which which could be you know this that I mentioned, turn turnover margins, NPS, whatever. These are numbers that, as as a sales manager or director.
[08:27] There's nothing that I can do to manage those numbers. I cannot change the numbers just by saying that I want you to do better sales. Yeah, that's too vague, right? Yeah, everybody wants that, but don't know how to achieve it. Yeah, well, there might be a lot of sport enthusiasts listening to this podcast, so we could do actually a few different examples. Because I know that around the world there are different sports that we follow. One could be Formula One. Last week, and Kimi Raikkonen, the Finnish Formula One driver driving for Ferrari, he won the the race. First time for like what five six years, so and he's driving really good team Ferrari.
[09:16] Now, the boss of Kimi has told him that I you need to start winning races. Will he win races by just Areva Bene saying that you need to to to win races? Just by test, right? Yeah, yeah. But is trying the best actually going to get you to to win the race? Or let's say that
[09:39] in ice hockey or football, will Ronaldo do a lot and do more goals if we say that you're going to get ten thousand or fifty thousand euros or dollars for every goal that you make? I don't know. Maybe. No. No idea. Because no, well, yeah. Actually, the money doesn't make a difference. Okay. Because of course they want to win, and they want to make, you know, as many goals as they they can. Yeah. It's not about you know making more goals, which is the end result. So end result in in football, for example, or American, let's say soccer, is to to win a game or win the cup. And to win a game, you need to make goals. But in order to to make more goals. Or win race. There's some activities that we actually need to start doing better. And in in sales, this could be divided to to three different elements. Could be quantity. So do I need to do more, or do I actually need to do less? Activities, quantitatively, meaning phone calls, meetings, you know, campaigns, offers out, or
[11:08] expo stands or whatever. Then another element. So this was the quantity element. The another one is direction, meaning which of the companies that we have as a customer or as prospects do I actually need to to contact. So, which would be the perfect customers for me? What are the solutions that I'm going to sell? What's the average size of a deal? Who are the people within that company that I need to visit? So, for example, when selling Salesforce.
[11:56] Do I need to visit IT department? In many cases, yeah, I need to do. Who else do I need to visit? Is IT good enough? Well, in many cases, it's not. I need to visit also the business units. I need to visit and and meet the director directors of of sales, for example, of marketing or commercial teams, or you know channel sales directors, and understand what's their pain also. And then the third one is quality. So how do I make sure that I have good hit rates, on time? You know that I'm I'm not going too early for the customer when they are not ready to buy, and then I'm not going too late when when somebody else already sold them something. Okay. So I need to make sure that I speak about the right stuff to right people. I have my materials in place, and and I'm on time. And and I have a good hit rate. That's like a in general the sales department how they achieve better like target right. They need to work on these three different categories. Yeah. Quality, direction, quantity. Yeah.
[13:22] And then, as a as a manager or a sales rep, I need to understand in order to make hundred money, how many of different activities I need to do, with whom and with what kind of average size of a deal, with this hit rate. And the problem lies, in many cases, that we don't have good enough data of these categories. And when a sales rep, for example, is coming and asking, "Well, I'm not hitting my quota. What do I need to do differently?" The normal answer would be you need to sell more. You you need to sell better. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot. It doesn't help me at all. No. So then, when I have the data about that these three different aspects, as a director or manager, I could then tell, okay, you need to focus on getting better. You know, hit rate. Or you need to improve the average size of a deal. You need to improve the quantity. But again, that's not good enough. Then we need to understand, in order to get better hit rates, in order to get better average size of a deal, or improve the quantity. What are the selling skills? And the knowledge of the person who I'm coaching. So you're you're trying to break down
[14:53] into different layers, right? We start the big goal. We have three like categories. Then we have the things you just mentioned, the multiple like sub items. Then how to reach those sub items. Yeah. So the the what I normally then would look from the system is that, for example, this person's average size of a deal is is not on the wanted level. It's too low. Why is it too low? Then I go and see the system. What is is it in in the offers that he sent out? So, for example, he's not. We have three different products or services that we sell. He's only selling one. What's the reason for not selling these to other, you know, products or services that we have, and is it based on selling skills, because he he doesn't know how to sell it, is it because of the substance, so the the knowledge part, so he doesn't actually know what are the products or how the business is working around the products, or is it because of the motivation and attitude? Is is is it because he thinks that these two other products that we have are not working? It's not good. Yeah. Then different reasons. Yeah. Or is it because then
[16:24] two other products takes too long time to sell, and it's affecting to his results, and because he's paid. By provision of how many euros or dollars he just sold, if if suddenly his selling time is double, he's going to lose a lot of money. So why on earth would he then or she start to sell these other products, or is there something that I as a director or manager should do differently? And these are the same topics that we should talk with the the customer. So what are the business goals? How they are going to achieve the business goals? What are the you know numbers and the dates are behind the activities and what are they actually going to do and how they measure and how they should measure and in many cases the the managers and the directors that we talk with they have a good system. But there's always room for improvement, because Salesforce has so many different good things that the customer has no idea of. Okay, I see the point now. Yeah. So instead of just going to the customer and asking what do you want, what do you need.
[17:44] In many cases, is not good enough anymore, because they don't know, you know, they don't know what what what is available. So when they say, "Okay, I need this and this and this," In many cases, it's not good enough anymore. Right, right. So if I'm doing a consulting business for the customer, and we have sales experts like you, when we start to contact the customer, we we ask them what do you want. In the same time, we give them this kind of template. To check with them, to negotiate and talk with them. Okay, how is your business currently running? What's the the current process? Is there anything we can improve? And then, together with that, we have the Salesforce platform. How Salesforce platform can meet the goal that you are setting from the technical point of view as well? Yeah. We don't even need to have the checklist, you know. We we, the checklist could be in your head, you know. Checklist. It's actually a good idea that there might be such. But as as a consultant.
[18:56] You should, you know, understand how the business is running, the customer, and then. What are the you know next steps to improve the business with Salesforce solutions, and in many cases you actually should bring it up that uh you know in order to to save costs from this segment that you are doing business with, or in order to to save time, you should automate this and. To automate it, you need this and this and this, and with Salesforce we have it, and the customer if. They don't realize that they could improve it. They would never tell it to you because they didn't know it. So it's your job also to tell the customer how they could improve their business, and then also show the value. That if you improve this, let's say if you improve this sales process by two weeks, you would get. Time to to visit more customers, for example. And in order to improve it by two weeks, you should do this and this. Improvements, and we can do it with this solution that we have here, and then. The customer starts
[20:27] to you know think that oh I never thought that I could improve it. But if you go and ask you know is there some room for improvements? Anywhere in your business, it's in many cases that they don't they don't answer or they don't know whether we could help them or not. So and and after after you go and tell them that uh you know you spotted an area that you could improve.
[20:58] You are the expert, you know, and
[21:03] yeah, and they trust you, and they give you, you know, recognition after that a lot more, and and in many cases they actually. They want you to tell them where they could improve. I love what you just mentioned. The whole concept it's quite easy to understand. We have all different layers of concept, and then we break down really down to the the ground, and then we see each and every element that our sales process or the sales people could improve, and then we just easily. You know, reflect and map them, right? And also, we can see Salesforce platform what it can do to help. Yeah, and and Salesforce platform is so good platform. This because you can do whatever you want with it. Yeah, that we are a proud of. Yeah, yeah, and. If we look at the competitors, for example, in many cases they cannot do anything compared what we can do. So you can modify it to every single customer. To help almost with any process and any sub process that they have within that process, it's just that you need to figure out what you need to improve, and be proud of yourself. Go and tell to the customer that I found I spotted a place that I could improve your business. I I bet
[22:33] that no one will say after that that no I don't want to improve my business. If you really understand what they are doing, I think that makes great sense. Have you had any study comparing the difference between I just sell a technology platform with like what you just mentioned this kind of a new sales way? Yeah. Actually, we have. It was done by the University of St. Gallen in Switzerland, and they studied different selling situations where we, as a sales reps,
[23:13] Go when we are selling, and there are two, you know, elements. The another one is what is the added value. Of the the customer. That they want from you. The other other side is is that I know exactly what I want. I don't want to have any added value from you. And the another one is, I don't know anything. Please help me. Okay. So this is the horizontal. Then the the vertical would be. Then what is the attitude? Towards you, your company, flexible Salesforce. The
[24:00] top side in in here would be I have never heard about you. I'm doing business with the competitor of yours. I never thought about this. And the another side is is. I've been doing business with you for you know last ten years, so we are really good friends. I I trust you. Whatever you say, we do. And this gives us four different boxes. So let's say let's take iPhone for example. Okay. I know exactly what I want, and I
[24:35] want it from you. And when we are selling iPhone, you know, and if you are the store manager, you know, just make sure that there's Different iPhones, and and and and available, and just sell it when they come and ask. Yeah. Okay. That's the easiest task. The other side is is then for this is is. I have iPhone, you know, seven, and I just broke it down, and you just launched, you know, three, four, five different phones. Uh, I want to have a new iPhone, but I don't know which one is good for me. But I want it from you. Okay. Uh, so then you need to start understand. Okay. Uh, what's the usage? What's the bud budget? You know, what do you do with the the phone and all this kind of info? And then you say, okay, based on this information you just gave me, this is the right phone for you, and then the transaction is done. Now I I need to do a little bit. Sales and understanding the customer needs. Yeah, and just ask right questions. Okay, this is called solution selling. Solution selling. Yeah, yeah. The customer has need in both of these cases that that I just described. They have a need. They come to you. They might go and ask from somebody else also, but many they they have a need, and the solution that you offer. Should fit to the need, okay? If the customer doesn't see any difference between you and the competitor, who's going to win the case?
[26:05] Depends. Of. Of. Of the the user's experience. Experience, price, and then also the availability. If you have it right now at the right price, I knew your your store already. That's the reason I came here. Okay, eighty percent of the salespeople spend their time only in these two boxes. Only in these two. Then we go to the other side. I know exactly what I want. I don't want it from you. You don't want from me. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So meaning in in in iPhone case for example. There would be a person coming to your store, with a friend, and you go and ask what you need. He says, No, I'm I'm I'm good. I'm just, you know, standing here, and and or then, you know, I I just broke my my Samsung Galaxy, and and I have a PC at home. I got Samsung TV and Google Chrome, and you know, I want to have Samsung. But your job is to sell iPhone. That's the toughest job, right? Yeah, but then, you know, that's called challenger sales or assertive sales or whatever. Okay. That's the toughest part, and many of the the phone calls that we call to customers start with this situation. With this
[27:35] situation, they don't want you. Well, did you expect that this person was calling to you? No. Well, think about your situation as a as a consultant. Did they think that you would go there and tell that I just spotted a problem? Did they expect that you would go and tell them? In many cases, no. But they actually might. So there's also another situation. I don't know what are my needs. I don't think that your company was the one who was solving my problems. I know that you are expert, so I'm happy to hear what you have to say. Both of these boxes that we are just now talking is need selling, not a solution. First, we need to sell the need to improve something. Okay, and we need to show where do you need to improve, and why. Why this is important? Why you should improve? How we're gonna improve it? And then the customer says, "Okay, I'm gonna buy it," but they'd never expected you. To go there and actually start talking about this, and only twenty percent of the salespeople or the consultants are actually working in this area. We call need selling. It's challenger sales or consultative sales, and it's a tough job. It is, and. We always
[29:06] need to start with why. Why this is important. Why you need to do something differently.
[29:14] Before you understand why, as a customer, you don't buy the solution.
[29:22] So when you are going to say, hey, I just put it on improvement, do this. Uh huh. Go and tell them, you know, in order to to save time, in order to sell more, in order to be more efficient, uh, you need to you know get more time or get more customers or whatever, and. We have a spot in your system, of spot in your process that would give you this time if it's improved, and this is how I would improve it. So sell the need first, and then the solution. And
[30:02] that's something that, if if you could do that, the customer will love you after that even more, and they would buy from your company a lot more. Okay. That's also from your own experience, right? Yeah, and also from the studies. Yeah, because in this setting situation, we are not in competition.
[30:27] Right. We are not in the competition. You might be at the customer side already, or when you go there, you know the the customer because they didn't have a need for this before. You just created it. You were the first one talking about it, and the competitors are, you know, kilometers or miles behind you. And that's the the the right time that you need to start doing something selling. Okay, and and you don't have to do this by yourself. Many times you can also ask help from pre-sales or you know sales or some managers. But at the customer side on project, you can always upsell. And and. Gain, you know, even better trust from the customer if you could do this. Upsell is kind of challenging for engineering people. You know, we are doing the project, we know the customer, and even their business, but it's hard for us to spot those business requirements points and to do upsells. So, do you have any idea on on those? Well, I'm glad that you asked. This was actually the one one thing that the the framework that we described when we started this podcast. You know, what are the business results? What are the unit targets or the goals? So, business goals improve revenue.
[31:57] Okay, in order to improve revenue with key accounts, what are the activities needs to be done? And is there something that you could automate? For example, if they have a key account plan, is the plan already in CRM? If not. Go and sell it, because the customer, in many cases, for example, the key account plans, they are on Excel's or they are on PDF or PowerPoint slides, and it doesn't talk with the CRM, and it's not updated. So no data, no data. No sales, no sales, no you know growth. So, if we go this.
[32:50] Framework, again, in order to let's take it as a key account perspective. Business target, ten percent growth for the next year. Key account will bring five percent of the growth. Activities in key accounts. We need to have more meetings with C-level people with this topic, and with the full product line that we have. Okay. Okay. How do you follow it? Well, yeah. Then we have this key account plan. Okay. Can I see the key account plan? Yeah, it's this Excel sheet. Is the Excel sheet updated daily, real time? Probably not. Okay. In order to have better data, you could actually achieve targets for key accounts even better, right? Yes, of course. What if I bring you real-time data how the key accounts are doing? Could you do it? Yeah, well then I I could you know manage my key accounts even better. Okay, good, because we can do this Excel sheet and update the Excel sheet to different fields and different tasks and different things to Salesforce, and you start following that from the Salesforce. And that's the way we can start selling,
[34:21] you know, as engineers or as consultants. Yeah, and and I I don't know if it's even selling or is it actually just helping and and showing your you know value and even better. You are really valuable guys, you know, and then they, you know, you're gonna gain the trust even more if we start talking about these kind of things. I I definitely want to learn the things you just mentioned because it doesn't sound like a rocket science because those are really. Simple concept you can easily follow and memorize, and it somehow help the developers to, you know, go out of the comfort zone and learn new stuff and collaborate with the sales team, right? Yeah, there's actually a really good book. It's really easy to read. Okay. It's called Cracking the Sales Management Code. It's by Jason Jordan. Okay. I had an opportunity to meet him in in Dreamforce. I spent, you know, I think I attended four of his Dreamforce sessions. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, and and read his book, got his autograph also. And he's talking about the same stuff. So, it's really easy to read. Okay, only like two hundred pages or something. And after you read that book, you understand what's the you know data-driven model in sales
[35:51] and and where you need to focus when when managing sales and when when improving the Salesforce. For the this author John, right? Come again? The the author of the book. Jason Jordan. Yeah, cracking the sales management code. You can buy it from Amazon and maybe maybe we. Yeah, we will post definitely post a link in our show notes and show notes and he is also working in Salesforce world. Yeah, and and he's he's actually a sales consultant, sales management consultant, based in the U.S. and that's a the book is bestseller book in sales. So take a look, go and read it. It's really good. So and your concept has some similarity. Yeah, we we pretty much have the same concept how we improve Salesforce. Okay, that's a really good book. So, so for the listeners, we will again put the links to our show notes. Just remember to go there to to check the link and read the book. Yeah, excellent. So, Lauri, I think that's a lot for our session. Before we are closing, do you have anything else to to share? Yeah, selling is
[37:13] different that it used to be. You know, selling it—it's not anymore. You know, pushing, pushing, making cold calls. Selling is actually showing your value and telling the customer how they could improve. And they they wanted the customers. They they want to improve their business. You know all the time. You are the one doing the business with them. Go and help them. Especially if the the salesmen have the technical background as well, then definitely will help, right? Yeah. Yeah. And and and when we look, for example, guys who are selling Salesforce, they don't have the skills you have. Exactly, they just go and talk, and and they have some models, but you are the one who actually knows what's going on behind the you know under the hood. So you you you spot the places for for improvement much much better than the sales guys. So. Be proud what you do, help the sales guys to sell more, and and it's gonna be okay. Thanks, Lauri. It was a great session with you today. And hopefully we have another chat afterwards as well. Okay, so see you guys. Bye bye.
