Buyan Thyagarajan, who joins to talk about Cloud Specialized Developer Career Path, is Salesforce MVP, specializing in Higher Education and Manufacturing. He is passionate about helping people start a Salesforce career.
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Main points
- Buyan’s self-introduction
- Buyan’s career advice to all developers
- Buyan uses EDA/HEDA education cloud as an example
- Buyan uses manufacturing cloud as an example
- Why should Salesforce developers know the business side?
- Buyan uses the non-profit cloud as an example
Links
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If you enjoy this podcast, please reach me out to let me know your thoughts or simply say Hello. My (Xi’s) contact info:
Take care, until next time :)!
Transcript
AI-generated, unedited.
[00:01] I'd like to welcome our sponsor, Form Assembly. Form Assembly's all-in-one web form platform lets you create forms for just about any use case. From contact forms to donation forms, all while taking advantage of useful features such as notifications, e-signatures, and more. Not only that, but you can also connect data to systems you already use. FormAssembly integrates with Salesforce, Podio, PayPal, and many other common solutions. You can find out how form assemblies help Salesforce customers optimize their data collection in a free ebook that we've linked in today's show notes. Whatever your data collection needs are, you can be sure that Form Assembly keeps your data secure with encryption at rest and in transit on all plans. Plus compliance with GDPR, CCPA, and more regulations. At the end of the day, form assembly helps you save time, money, and effort while getting the maximum benefit out of the data you collect. And I remind you, when you support our sponsors, you support the show.
[01:30] Hey everybody! This is Xi Xiao. This is yet another episode of Salesforce Way podcast. Today I'm sitting with a new guest with me. He's from the U.S. He's original from the Indian. His name is Buyan, and your family name so hard to pronounce. Let me give it a try. So he's. Thyagarajan, you got it right. Okay, okay. So Buyan, would you like to introduce yourself? Okay. Hello, everybody. My name is Buyan Thyagarajan. I am originally from Chennai, India. Now I'm in US for the last twenty years. I was a Salesforce MVP and a certified application architect. I currently run a practice for Igonex. So it's good to talk to Yoshi. Yeah, great to have you on. So we had the conversation. What topic are we going to talk about? Actually, you are really interested and also keen about to. Give their devices to the Salesforce developer career path, right? So you see this big trend on the Salesforce ecosystem. You know what's happening and what's the benefit the developers can gain from that. And actually, it's kind of similar to the last episode I talked with Abhinav about what's the mega trend. He said developers should be specialized nowadays because the platform is so vast. So there's nobody can really know everything about Salesforce. And even I talked with Ben McCarthy,
[03:00] the Salesforce Ben, the guy. He said even if you start a consulting company, you now should be specialized as well. So it's like a match, you know, for individual for companies. So you have the similar idea, right? Right, right. So again, I'm very passionate about it. To give some context to this, you know, I started my career as a programmer. Right, so I started in mainframe, moved to web development, and then I'm in Salesforce right now. So that's like three technologies I've shifted. One of the things I'm very passionate about is—I mean, I'm still a programmer at heart—and even though I don't get chance now to do development, the trend what I see from programmers is that they have to be specialized in specific industries. Because at the end of the day, no matter what technical skills we do, if it does not resonate with the business, we would be lost. And as you can see, almost now most of the development in the Salesforce ecosystem is going towards point and click. And so, what this means is that knowing the Salesforce roadmap, maybe seventy percent would be flows and you know process builders and developers are thinking, what do we do in this world? Well, there is different options now. The options are the industry clouds, which Salesforce came about with. When I talk about industry clouds, there are four to ten products in that space. There is the nonprofit cloud. There is the education cloud, which is called HEDI or EDU.
[04:30] There is a manufacturing cloud and health cloud. So those are products which are coming, and they're very, very specific to a specific industry. So, as a programmer, as you're, you know, working with your Apex, Visual Force, Lightning development, if you get certified in one of these clouds. What makes it helpful for you is now you are a specialist in that industry, and it makes your brand recognition higher. Your career is growing, and third, you can get more highly paid in that. So those are things I'm very passionate about, and I would love to get the developer community start thinking about that. Hmm. Yeah, most of developers like me that we're still, you know, develop and advance our Apex code skills, and most of us are on the sales cloud or service cloud or those, you know, famous and popular ones. But the other new clouds, like manufacturing clouds, Eda, which is for the education, and also the health clouds. Those are new, and we have really little experience about. Right, and I I like the idea. I always said I like the idea. So we should find the balance. We can't be too big, too general, which doesn't mean anything. The competition is too fierce, and you should be specialized on something. But here, I want us to have more examples, right? Because we know little as a developer. So, could you share us the experience you had? I know you are guru on the AIDA. You're
[06:00] guru on the manufacturing clouds. So let's talk a little bit about. What are the special features on those clouds, if you may, open? All right, cool. So let me talk a little bit about HEDA, which is the education cloud. Now, if you are in the Salesforce platform, obviously the standard accounts are pretty standard accounts, contacts, opportunities are standard objects. You are always familiar with that. So from a developer standpoint, what is important is the data model, which is important, like what objects and fields. If you talk about Hadoop, what it is is it's primarily used for universities, right? So at the end of the day, what universities do is they sell programs, which are the MBA program, the masters, undergrads, and you know their one-off certification courses. That's what they sell, and they sell it to who? It's the students. Now students. Do not work for a company. So the question is, how do I get that data in Salesforce? So if you let's say John Doe is a student and I want to capture it in Salesforce, the standard Salesforce solution is, you know, the person accounts, which is primarily not well developed, but it is getting there, right? So you have a contact and an account. Hira is similar to that. So, what Hira does is there is primarily four or five key features. What you need to know, one is when you store students, you will always have a contact and an account, which is created behind the scenes by Salesforce. It is similar if you are familiar with person accounts, but if you are not, all it is it's it's it's an when you create John Doe the student,
[07:31] there's a contact record and an account record. Because I I studied a little bit about the person account. So, for example, when I have a customer, a B two C customer, logged in or registered, then that customer would get an account and associated contact. So, two records associated one with another and linking to this individual customer. Correct. Correct. Exactly. For header, it's the similar database model. Okay, it's exactly the same model, except there is a little bit more a caveat to it. So there is something in so there's basically record types, right? So in an account, by default, Salesforce has a master record type, right? Plain vanilla. So when you install Hira, which is really a package, a managed package, right, and it is for free for universities, what they do is they add record types to it. So in your person, if you are familiar with person accounts, you will have a record type for person accounts. In the world of Hira, there are, from an architecture standpoint, one of the key things you need to know is about the account model. So the question you would ask is: Would the industry sell to individuals, or will it sell to employees of a company? Right. So those are two different models. If you're selling into the individual model, then it's going to be the contact and account, and Hira calls that a record type called administrative account. I mean, that's just a record type. There's nothing else. But behind the scenes, there are two records: a contact record and an account record. That is how the model is meant to track the student's information.
[09:01] Exactly right. So that is the first thing for you to know. Right. The second thing you want to know is in the Hira model, there is something called a household count model. So, what that means is, John Doe as student can have his brother studying in the same university. Maybe his dad was an alumni in the same university. Now, if you look at Salesforce, those three could be individual contact records by themselves, right? They could be three accounts and three contacts. The question is: You can all link them up and call them up as you know the Doe family, which is the account one account and three contacts linked to it. So that's called the household account model. So that's another model. It's really an architecture, and that is something you would set it up when the first time when you install Salesforce. So that's one thing key about the account model which you should know. Right, I see. Right now, after this, there is again the in the Hira world. It's just architecture, knowing basic concepts. Right, the second concept you should be aware of is called an affiliation. So, what an affiliation is, I'll give you an example. Right, in the higher ed student, or if you're working for an university, you you will join. You might be interested in an undergrad program or an undergrad degree. Right. So, if you have a form, let's say as a student, and you have first name, last name, and you say I want to study B.S. in computer science, a bachelor's in computer science. It's an example. The way Salesforce the record gets stored, you have contact record for John Doe. There's an
[10:31] account record, and then there's an affiliation record, which is nothing but a junction object linking the contact to an account. Okay. Now, in account, the programs which universities sell, which are your undergrad degrees, your bachelor's degrees, those will be stored as different record types. It's just a record type for account, and they call it program record type. So that's another thing you need to know. So if you're looking at in the Hira model from a university standpoint, universities have different departments like an undergrad department, a grad department. So that is a different record type. They call it the. Department record type in an account, so that is base things you need to set up, and then you will have faculties, right, and contacts. There would be faculties, and then you have programs. What each department sells. So the undergrad department sells bachelor programs. The grad sells master programs. You know. So these all programs, and the way you store the record in Salesforce is a contact and an affiliation. So affiliation is another concept you should be knowing. Okay, so those are just from a data architecture standpoint. You need to know now how does that impact from a programming standpoint, right? Now let's say if you have a trigger, you are used to triggers in contacts and accounts, right? In the free world of Salesforce, well in the Hira world, it's a little bit different because now you have to deal with record type. Because let's assume you have a use case where you have to insert a record in Salesforce programmatically. Let's say you have to write a trigger, right?
[12:02] Now the Hira package also already comes with a package. They have it called table driven. It's called a TDTM model, which is table driven model. Basically, what they have done is plugins for each object. So let's say if you're inserting a contact record and you want to expand and put it into another custom object, as an example, there is a requirement to say, I want to store certain fields on a form and store it in a custom object. Let's say I call it program of interest because you know you're giving your first name, last name, all that. When you write a trigger, you would then go into the TDTM architecture. But basically, it's a plugin class. So you extend that class and then you insert into it. So as a programmer, you're always writing on straight objects. Now you can't just do that. You just have to enable the plugin and you have to work in there the package class wrapper. Basically, you extend the class and do that. So that's another thing from a programming standpoint you need to know. Okay, so let's do a little bit recap. You talked the several points about the data model. So those things I see it's a little bit like opinionated. Salesforce collected the general requirement from all the universities. So these are the points that you all need. So let me just create it for you. You don't need to customize it anymore in the future. And the last one is called the TDTM, which to me it's like a trigger framework. Is it so? Exactly, it is. It is a trigger framework.
[13:32] It's basically the DAO architecture where you have a parent trigger for each object Salesforce built-in, and because these packages do rollups as well, so that is another impact. Because what the Theta package does is, from a university standpoint, they would like to know how many programs a student is interested in, right? As an example, okay. So in the contact object, it's a this affiliation. So if you are interested in five programs, you will have five records in the affiliation. Right, because it's a lookup, and in theory you could do a roll-up summary, but this is a lookup relationship, right? So if you want to do those kind of roll-ups and all that, you have to enable this TDTM class. So basically, it is nothing but an extended class which Salesforce provides for you, and you write custom code in that trigger class, then writing your own trigger. So it's a bigger framework. Is this uh from a managed package or is it like an unmanaged package? Can I see the source of the TDTM? You you will know the you will know the source of the TDTM. It is a managed package at the end of the day, so you don't have the source code. But you just have to extend it and build your own. Right. Okay. So the other aspect, again, from what's difference is data loading, because in a typical data loading, you want to load, let's say, million records or million students in Salesforce, right? Typically, you use data loader tools or anything an ETL tools to just import it, right? Yeah. But in in the Hira model, you have
[15:02] different triggers because you have contacts. There is a trigger for that, which the package comes up with, and you also have the affiliation record, which the package has a trigger for that. So in reality, you would have to turn off the triggers because sometimes you know you're hitting governor limits in that scenario too. Yeah. In your typical programming, you do that by turning off the triggers on contacts and accounts. But here, you would go to that package settings, turn off that trigger, and do that. So that's so that's a similarity when you look at high volume data. Kind of things. I see. I see. You you need to know where to turn on and turn off the stuff, especially here is like a abstracted layer on top of a regular Salesforce platform, right? Okay. Yeah. I see. I see. The other thing for you to the so that's the the affiliation I talked to you about. There's another thing called relationship in in the in this package. So what it is is basically about linking two contacts. For example, a use case of John Doe is a student. He's working is is going an undergrad. His brother went to masters, and his dad was an alumni. Now three contacts. They are all linked together in this relationship object, which is basically a contact to a contact lookup. Kind of thing, and it will say, the there is a relationship field which will say John Doe's brother is John Doe Senior, and then John Doe Senior too was his father. So basically, it's related records, and you will have that relationship stored there. Which in a typical Salesforce,
[16:32] you don't have an object, and people do custom work for that. I see. So you can check the family tree in the university. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's that's interesting. I mean. It it sounds not really complex, but you do need to have that skill before you you know get hired as a editor developer, right? So you need spending some time on that, okay? Right, and again, I think it is easier for programmers because there is no language here. It is an architecture which you need to be familiar with. And the good thing about this architecture is that it is free, right? And there is a there's trailheads to go and learn what the architecture is. There is also a community called Power of Us Hub, which a lot of nonprofits use, right? And in that, if you, I don't think you can connect with a developer account. You need a real live Salesforce account to do that, unfortunately. But once you're in, there's a lot of packages, a lot of training material. There's a lot of trailheads on that. That's good. That's good. How about the manufacturing cloud? I heard a couple months ago it started doing the beta testing. Right. Even the company I'm working in, there were people going there to check what's the manufacturing cloud. Yep. So manufacturing cloud is something very new. So it's been in existence for like one year and a half now. Now I'll give you the scenario why manufacturing cloud. Right. So typically, if you're in a manufacturing company, there are different types of
[18:02] manufacturers. Right. One, you could be a discrete manufacturer where you just manufacture products. Right. For example, this COVID 19, everybody makes just healthcare products and all that. Right. There's also Process manufacturers like chemical companies, all they do is chemical in high volume business, right? So, typically in a manufacturing company, what they do is they sell B two B companies and they have contracts every year. And the challenge is most of the manufacturing companies when they use Salesforce, they do not. They what they care about is how are the contracts working every year. So the contract could be I am ABC company, like I'm a DuPont. I'm selling chemicals. I sell this to let's say Amazon. Every year I have to sell two times. That's my contract. And so I need to manage whether I'm doing my sales myself. Whether I sell them really two point five million based on contracts, did I? How is every month? You know what my shipment is, what my orders are, all those stuff. Previously, this was maintained in the ERP space, which is SAP. Typically, manufacturing companies use SAP as the ERP system, but the salespeople do not go into SAP to see all that. They want to see that in Salesforce. I see. Okay, so that is the reason why this manufacturing cloud came into existence. And all this does is it's a bunch of accounts where they have an object called sales agreement, which is like a junction object, which connects the accounts to the opportunities. I mean, typically you would use opportunities to store your win rates,
[19:33] right? But For companies who are already selling, we have a contract in place, and they have millions of orders. They do not need to create millions of opportunities. Because that will be too much. So what they do is they have an account. So I have Dupont, right? I'm the customer. I'm selling to Amazon. That's an example. So Amazon is an account in that world. I will see there is a sales agreement object, which is a junction object, which will say for this month my volume is three point five. So there is a roll up. There is a master object and a child object in that case. And you could do roll-ups every month to say my annual for this year 2021 my contract is 2.5 million, but in March I just did maybe 0.5 million. You know, so you could do revenues like you could do revenue-based forecasting. You could do quantity-based forecasting. So that is the core essence of this manufacturing cloud. I guess managers definitely want to see these kind of summaries, right? Too too many strings they need to pull. The end end of the month, I just want to see one data: how much has been shipped out, shipped or not? And again, from a manufacturing world, they look at two types of customers: one is existing customers whom they have contracts; they sell every month month, and new customers, right? Those are the only things. The challenge has been existing customers. How do they? How do I manage whether I'm on target as a salesperson because I'm getting
[21:03] paid for it every month? Yeah, and how my orders are doing, how my quantity is doing. Well, the details I don't need to know, like the order status and all. My ERP system find out, but the sales agreement, the core object, is the core essence of manufacturing cloud. Now the difference in manufacturing cloud versus the Hira model is in manufacturing there is no B two C model, it's B two B model, right? So there, if you're looking from an architecture standpoint, there is an account and contact standard Salesforce accounts and contacts. But the new object, which is is the sales agreement object, which kind of links the account to different objects for forecasting. Basically, it has got its own custom objects, but that's the core object. Like in here, I talked about affiliation. Here, it is the sales agreement object. So, as a developer, what you need to know is just the architecture. Again, there is no new language for you in this case, and what is going to happen is existing customers they will just install this package. Again, now the difference is this is part of the core. Like here is a managed. You have it installed versions, but manufacturing cloud is a core of the just. It's like your regular sales cloud and service cloud product. So it's a core. So it's a little bit different. So you don't need to worry about versioning. You know the pain points of handling managed packages. You have to look at there things. That's not there. So Salesforce can automatically upgrade you to the manufacturing cloud. That's a real cloud as
[22:33] a. It's a real cloud. It's a real cloud as a platform. Okay, you mentioned to pull out the data or maybe even send in the data to SAP. So does it have some better model to talk with SAP? Yes, great question. So, in the world of SAP, people are familiar with. I mean, SFE has this concept of sold tos and shiptos. So, what it is is when when you're a customer in the world of SAP, it's an account or a company info, and each company can have multiple divisions, which is called their sold tos, and you can ship to a customer in multiple shiptos. So, it's a different model. So what Manufacturing Cloud does, it does not represent the same data model as your SAP because in Salesforce it's just purely accounts. That's it, and the sales agreement will tie how much my revenues and forecasts are. But there is an integration. With manufacturing cloud with SAP, which comes through Microsoft. So people who are familiar with Microsoft, which is integration cloud in Salesforce, it's a package. So what would this mean for developers is? That is, if you are in the world of Salesforce, you should know the ETL tools, right? And ETL tools, I mean, people are doing Informatica, Boomi, and all that. But the direction Salesforce is going is towards integration cloud, which is MuleSoft. So that is an additional skill you need to learn as part of this, you know, career, because real-time integrations with SAP
[24:04] is a nightmare. I mean, because all customers have very old version of SAP. Right, and to do an upgrade, it's billions of dollars. You know, to just yeah, it is. It's not that easy. So Salesforce comes and says, "Well, here's my package." So as a developer, if you are trying to do an integration, which most of the developers work in in that space. Well, you need to now learn Microsoft, and so that is another career path by itself. In the manufacturing cloud, do I need to learn from scratch about a Microsoft, or is there like a ready-made skeleton template for me to, you know, stand on top? Right. Great question. Yes, there is a ready-made template, so you don't need to know the SAP data model. You don't need to know the Salesforce model. The template is—they call it—I think they call it templates. For each source, right. So, like, if you don't use SAP, you might use another ERP system, right? You could create templates and kind of, you know, connect it with Microsoft. And that is the value add. So that means integration is quicker. An integration project takes six months to one year could be done in three months. It's very quick in Microsoft. That's good. That's good to know. But there's a price you will have to pay. Obviously, of course, is there. But hopefully, you know, it will get down. But there's the value add. Is time is the essence. You get it. I mean, at the end of the day, what they're doing is the CRM package. They're making it specific to each industry. That is what it is, and this speaks the language for manufacturing.
[25:35] Yeah, I have worked with a lot of manufacturing companies in Finland. So if they could have started again, I think they will pick the manufacturing cloud. It will save them millions of dollars. You know, exactly. To go straight, right? And then the other question we need to know from an architecture standpoint is: some companies ask, "Should I throw away SAP and get everything in Salesforce?" The answer is no. Because SAP is the core, it does the core back office, order management, and all that. Salesforce is not going to replace that, but where Salesforce comes in is on the sales side. So, if as a salesperson, all I need to know is my revenues, my volumes, how am I doing every month? That is all I care. So that is where Manufacturing Cloud comes in, and Salesforce will play in that space, and. There's also templates connected to Marketing Cloud as well, because you could do journeys. Because one of the things in Manufacturing Cloud, which is a pain point for salespeople, is that every month they go visit customers. And then they need to know where if their orders are have a problem, or they need to know you know what is happening with the customer. So typically, what companies are doing is with Marketing Cloud they're building journeys to say if you if you something is wrong they send a message to the salespeople they send it to the sales teams. So, in a manufacturing space, there are different customers. You know, like different company employees work, right? The salespeople, sales teams, inside sales, everything. So, those people also need
[27:05] to be notified on that. So, there is account teams which you should be familiar with if you are going into the manufacturing world. I see that you try to convince me that always start from the business requirement. What business you are talking to? What's the process? Why do we need these kind of features? And then after that, you start to understand that we set up a data model. We have this technology behind. So then everything start to click together. Exactly. Okay. I mean, again, yeah. I mean, that is the core. I mean, when you go into these packaged products, I mean, they have some core features in it, and you can't just like install it and call it done. No, it won't work like that. You will have to go to the business and say, how do you do your sales process now? How do you do your marketing process now, and then start using? Okay, what does this package have as a base? Like it, it uses still the standard objects. It's going to give you a couple of custom objects which you need to know. At a high level, all you need to know is what is this object and what could it be used for. You don't need to know every field in the object. You might need to know the relationship. For example, the sales agreement has a lookup to the account. Well, you need to know how it is related. That's all. And then take that ERD of that package and go and retrofit it to the client. You might add a lot of custom fields to that package, and you might get a lot of new objects. So, what does that mean from a developer standpoint? Is now people who have a passion about—I mean, at the end of the day, programming is about data. What do you do? So, you carry
[28:35] that ERD in your head, and as long as you know that data model, that's the key to learn in these packages. There's nothing specific from programming standpoint you need to know. That's really good. No, that's the essential message you try to do to everybody. Okay. Um. In addition to the two clouds we talked, is there some other clouds? Because I know there are new clouds already, like health cloud and the financial service cloud. Right. So, is there one another cloud you're still more familiar with? You want to introduce us? Yeah. So the other cloud, which I think a lot of developers might know, is the non-profit cloud. I talked about. Right, the non-profit cloud was one of the first primary products Salesforce built for industries. This is like ten ten years ago. They did it. I mean, the originally it was called the non-profit success pack. That was the original name. Now it's called. They change the names, and now it's Nonprofit Cloud. Now, what is a Nonprofit Cloud? So, in a typical nonprofit, again, there are developers who work and you know help different nonprofit organizations. There are donors, you know, who donate to the nonprofit, right? There are employees who you know who work in that nonprofit. So, in a typical model where you would have, you know, like employees, again, it's similar to the Hira model. It's person account. So, if ah if you have a donor who's just, you know, by himself, doesn't work for anybody, how do you store that data? In the nonprofit cloud, there is again the
[30:05] B two C, the same administrative account because Hira came from nonprofit cloud. Oh, okay. So everything derived from it, and the key thing for you to know is the person account model. If you are familiar with it, all the clouds kind of use the same. It's the same concept. So you need so from a non-profit standpoint, if I am a donor and I donated, let's say, ten dollars, right, for a program. Well, in the first thing is how do I store your record? So I'm John Doe and I'm giving ten dollars. So John Doe is a contact in the non-profit success cloud, and the account would be John Doe in my own name. So it creates a contact an account which is similar to a person account model and similar to the HEDA model. So first you get the donor information. The second thing is, what is donations? How do you track that in nonprofit? If you look at the nonprofit side, they're where they're getting the money from donations, right? So if they're getting it from donations, what is the primary source in the Salesforce is opportunities. So donations are nothing but opportunities. Okay, just change the terminology. Exactly, and if you look at it, it's really a record type. So opportunity by itself doesn't have a record type. So what the nonprofit out there is, they created this donation record type, and then they kind of did that. So that is what it. So if you are working for a nonprofit and you're trying
[31:35] to set up, because one of the things you should know is that nonprofits get ten licenses free. For Salesforce, and I'm sure there are programmers who want to give back. I mean, in this uncertain time, I think everybody should give back a lot. And a lot of people are losing jobs and all that. So in that case, if you're setting something quick for a nonprofit, you just install the nonprofit cloud, and all you have to do is you have to know the architecture. Okay, where is my contacts and accounts, which I told talked about individuals, right? Second, how do I track donations? Well, it's opportunities and just customize fields. So that's just architecture. And then the same thing, similar to HEDA, they have affiliations. So, for example, if you are tracking, if you're getting a donation from an ABC company, right? So the John Doe, the contact works for ABC company. How would you store that record, right? So in that case, John Doe is a contact and an account. ABC Company is an account. So how do you link the contact to the account? That is an affiliation, because affiliation is contact to an account. So this real company is like a regular account, and this person account is just a different type of account. Exactly. But you still need to link them, right? Okay, with the affiliations. Right. And again, if you look at it, it's really architecture because if you are traditional Salesforce, if you store employees, you just put a contact, an account, and put all the contacts underneath them. That's how we are used to. Whereas in the nonprofit
[33:05] world, you just create another record in the affiliation. It is similar to contact to multiple account feature, which is now happening because employees can work for two companies or they can serve boards and all that. That's what the affiliation would do for you. So that is another key concept you need to understand from the non-profit space because they get donations from companies. Right. Yeah, I see. The other core feature, again, from the nonprofit is grants. For example, a lot of nonprofits they get money from companies. I mean, how do companies pay them? It's by grant. A grant is nothing but a donation. The company can tell you, I can pay you hundred thousand dollars for three years. Every year, you'll get some amount of money. So the nonprofits go through a process of you know applying for the grant, and then the company evaluates ten nonprofits and decides one. So there's a whole business process of going through grants and all that, but again. If you look at it from an object standpoint, where would you capture the grants, right? Is it in the opportunity again? Yes, you got it. That is opportunity. So that's another record type. Bottom line, so that so that's another idea behind it. And again, from a nonprofit, they have programs because some nonprofits do educational services. You know, they teach kids, right? And it's nothing but a program for fifth grade kids, seventh grade kids, and all that. So they have some other custom objects for programs and all that.
[34:36] And if you if you really look at it, where you're getting into is you're now getting deeper and deeper into the business side, and that is where the business savvy programmer comes in. I use this word business savvy because programmers are great. They love coding, they love development, and all that. Now, if you get to these clouds, you become a business programmer, you know, and you become really a consultant. It's a developer that's really bound to to this type of business, so it's a tight connection one with another. So, it's harder to lose your job, I guess. That is true, and I always use this question. So, what's the difference between a contractor and a consultant? That's a question, right? People have, because contractors are paid by the hour, right? That's just how contractors are. A lot of programmers do that. The consultant makes the client work for him. The client does the job for him, and the client gets paid twice the money. That's what a consultant is. If you really look at that way, right? Yeah, good definition. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. So the question from a career standpoint is: Do you want to be a contractor, just doing your job, just get your billable rates, or do you want to be a consultant, paid twice? You know, the architecture is not big deal, and you become more valuable at this position. That's what you need to decide. And I'm a consultant. I love consulting. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a great time for us to round up our conversation here. So we talked about the Ada, we talked about manufacturing, talk about the nonprofit. It's really good
[36:06] knowledge sharing from you, you know, to get us to understand a bit more about these clouds. And in in addition to these, we have the other ones. We just didn't have time to really touch, you know, consumer product clouds and health cloud. I never even. No, it existed before talking to you. So there are all those things we can explore. Yeah, for the volunteers, great. Thanks, Buyan. It's a great chatting with you, and then talk to you next time. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye.
