40. How To Stand Out In Your Career? | Christopher Hopper

Christopher Hopper, who joins to talk about how to stand out in your career, is a CRM Recruiter (Salesforce Industry) based on Houston, Texas Area.

Chris is using his direct CRM analysis, development, integration, managerial and delivery experience to help clients achieve the best outcomes they can in their Salesforce projects by adequately locating and qualifying resources.

Main Points

• Chris’ self-introduction
• Why is Chris actively creating articles and posts on LinkedIn and why he considers it is important to practice writing.
• How did Chris come up with this topic about how to stand out in the Salesforce professional career.
• Why is it important to think of creative ways to differentiate yourself?
• Why is it important to keep focused and learning to get better?
• Why does it bring great benefit to both yourself and others to do extra work and contribute back to the Ohana? Both Chris and I are sharing our thoughts.
• Is it important for developers to use social media platforms especially LinkedIn?
• Try to help people and connect people in your network, which help you to solidify your own network
• Create content in Social platforms can help you to test the market and collect feedback.
• The concept of takers and givers and why givers are usually more successful and happier
• How to showcase your skills and abilities, and create a great attractive CV?

Links

• Chris’s Twitter
• Chris’s LinkedIn Profile
• Book: Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook

Video Teaser On Stand Out In Your Career

The YouTube Video URL

Transcript

AI-generated, unedited.

[00:15] Hey everybody! This is Xi Xiao. This is yet another episode of Salesforce Way podcast. Today I'm sitting with Christopher Hopper. Hello, Chris. Hello, Xi. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm so excited to talk to you. You know. Me too. I'm glad. Thank you for the invite. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, sure, sure. So Chris, would you like to introduce yourself first? Sure. My name is Chris Hopper. I live in Houston, Texas. I am a Salesforce tech recruiter. Been in the CRM industry for almost 20 years now. Used to be a Siebel guy, did a lot of consulting work, everything from being a developer to a technical PM to an architect to a BA. About three years ago, decided to leave the industry as it relates to delivery and hang my hat on being a recruiter, helping those in the Salesforce ecosystem advance their Salesforce career. You have really a long history of a CRM consulting developer project manager. Everything you have down around this. Correct, and that's one of the reasons why I decided that I thought I would be a little bit different in the recruiting space, just based on my background and my wealth of knowledge and experiences that hopefully I could leverage in sharing with other folks who are maybe just starting out or looking for a career pivot or whatever the case may be, and just share ideas and opinions with them. Yeah, you know, one of

[01:45] the great things you have done is to share your knowledge and the insights around LinkedIn. Right, right. So, so there's so many uh great articles you are sharing and those posts you are engaging people to having conversation with you. So I I really enjoy you know follow you in LinkedIn. Great, thank you for that. I mean, again, it's just you know LinkedIn has really been just my go-to when thoughts come up in my head or when I'm having conversations with people, just to be able to share experiences with those. You know, sometimes it resonates with people and sometimes they don't. But it's just a good platform for me be able to express my thoughts, and I enjoy writing. And as you get to do it more often, you become I think a little bit better at it. And I advise anybody who hasn't been a writer traditionally. Just step into it occasionally because it gets your thoughts onto paper and allows you to figure things out in real time. Yeah, you know I enjoy conversation. I enjoy sometimes make a video, but writing is totally my weak point. I I suffer from that, but I on purpose practice my writing skills. Yeah, exactly. And again, you could even write stuff; you don't have to publish it, right? I mean, there's nothing that says you can just have a journal and just keep it to yourself. It's more about the practice of doing it, right? Now I do it socially, one to build brand awareness and just to help others. And but again, not everyone is comfortable exposing themselves like that, and that's fine. You

[03:16] could always just do things. Close to yourself, and again, it's just trying to get things from your mind onto paper, and and you get better with it over time. In my opinion, yeah, that's cool. So today I invited you, actually also from LinkedIn. So I asked you what things you want to share with us. And you said, why not? Let's talk about differentiate yourself as a Salesforce professional in your career, right? Right. I I like that idea, and then we had some short conversations. So I know that you're gonna bring some great knowledge, and I'd loved really to hear the things from you. So so how did you originally come up with this idea? It's good. It's a great question. So you know, one thing that I see happening is. The marketing that Salesforce is doing about all these open positions, right? 3.3 million jobs happening by 2022. Okay, and I don't really understand how that number is derived, what makes up that number, or what positions specifically are part of these 2.2 million positions. But the thing that I do see is that there's a lot of competition. Okay, everyone is drinking the Salesforce Kool-Aid, so to speak, and people that don't have a Salesforce background are trying to get into it, and that's fine, right? But you know, if you are doing the same things that everyone else is doing, and just getting Trailhead badges, and

[04:46] just getting certifications, and just trying to apply for positions, What makes you any any different than anyone else, right? It's it's you. So what makes you different, in my opinion, is your unique personality, your ability to be creative, and the things that you do to stand out, right? And that you know is is personal to you, but I think it can also help you get to the top of the resume stack when you do things differently, right? And I don't mean to do you know I don't mean to Do things extravagantly and be annoying or be a be a jerk along the way. I'm saying keep things professional still, but just think about a strategical way to to perform your job search. Yeah. You know, one of my podcast guests in the past, Anon Krui, based in the UK, and one of his presentation is to sing a song about the technical stuff he did. So he he really sang a very good song in the presentation. So I think everybody was impressed. That's kind of a different thing. Exactly, it's just daring to be different, right? And you know, they they call it the the lizard brain, right? The lizard brain is something that causes you to resist being yourself. Right, and it's taken me a long time to to push through that lizard brain, right. And once I've been able to do that, I've been a lot more free with expressing myself. And you know, again, I'm not for everybody. You're not

[06:16] for everybody. Everybody's not for everybody, right? But you are unique, and some people enjoy that, right. And some people will resonate with their messaging and what you bring to the marketplace. And again, you just have to understand that you may get criticized. Some people may just Throw stones at you, are the case. Those people aren't for you. The people that are for you are the ones that like your stuff. They comment, they appreciate what you do. Those are the people that you want to build a tribe with, right, and build a relationship with. And I think once you start doing that, you will start to see more people enjoying what you bring to the marketplace, your creativity, and it will resonate with them. And you, you know, it's just a good way for you to express yourself. Okay. I think I'm convinced. I do want to differentiate myself, and a lot of my listeners they are from the technical side, and this is actually one of our weak points. We yes yeah you introvert right right exactly right so I get it trust me I I I was the same way you know I I enjoy being in in my cube I enjoy doing my own thing I enjoy being left alone putting in a hard day's work and uh and that was fine you know and and you can be very uh productive and successful at it right but when it comes to A job search, right? You you gotta you don't have to understand this, but another piece of it that you don't have to get out of your comfort zone, right? And I talk to people all

[07:46] the time about them not being comfortable having conversations and reaching out to people, right? And I get it because you're just reserved. You don't want to be denied a conversation. You know, you don't want to have your ego hurt. I get it. You know, I was like, I was the same way. Now I'm in more of a sales and recruiting capacity, so I've had to shift my mindset a little bit and be a little bit more extroverted, and it's been it's been good. You know, and again, every conversation that I reach out that I have with somebody, do I get welcome with open arms? Not even close, right? But occasionally I do, and the people that are willing to talk to me are the people that we have a good conversation around. The other people that just are busy doing other things in their career or or have their own lives or whatever. Okay, fine. I tried. It wasn't a good connection. Go to the next one. Hmm. That's cool. I I don't need to you know have this code call or code email to a lot of people daily, but I do for example need to invite podcast guests. I need to talk to people as well, but some of them they are busy or for whatever reason they do not reply. So you know you you get this yeah. Yeah. Exactly, but that hasn't stopped you from keeping going, right? No, no, no way. Exactly. Stop me, right? I mean, you're on a mission to do something, right? And it and and you're gonna have some doors closed, right? But you're gonna have some doors that open, right? And as long as you keep getting some doors open, that keeps you motivated to keep going. Yeah. Right. So you know, and that's kind of the interviewing process, right? You're gonna have, you know,

[09:16] you're starting out your Salesforce career, and you send out ten resumes, and maybe one of those invites you in for an interview. Okay, and you bomb the interview. Okay. Now you reset. You learn from it. You send out ten new resumes to ten other employers. Now you get two doors opened. You interview with those. The first one may fail. The second one gets you to second round, okay? And then you fail the second round. Okay, fine. Wipe the slate clean. Start again, right? And it's continue to chip away at things over and over and over again, and learning from it to get better, right? And it's just like anything. Like I'm trying to learn how to play the guitar or golf or whatever the case may be, right? You just take a little piece at a time. You figure out what worked, what didn't. You wipe it, wipe and clean. You come back the next day and you do it again. And you start building blocks and building momentum and building confidence. And eventually, I'm a strong believer that you'll be successful. Yeah, practice, practice, practice. That's right. You know, a lot of my listeners they are developers. So, in my opinion, developers still have a bit more advantage over the other career path, like consultant. Because nowadays developers are just the hot potato in market. Yeah, always demanded, especially Salesforce ones. Yeah, I usually say Salesforce developers are a bit spoiled. So you always get a job. No, no matter where you're going in the world, at this moment at least. So that's right.

[10:46] A lot of developers they might argue with me. Why do you do a lot of this extra stuff? I mean, I get the job, you get the job. I get some, you get some. Maybe a little bit more than me, but you do a lot of extra work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great question, right? And so I guess how do you answer that? I mean, I have my opinion, but what's your thoughts on that? I don't know. I mean, to me, it's not just about the job. I'm picking up a thing that I'm passionate about. So, so I don't usually get this burnout. I know a lot of people get burnout, especially when they're working overtime. But I'm kind of shifting, shifting my context. I'm doing a podcast, even though it's still Salesforce related, but it's a totally different story. I really love what I'm doing. So I don't know. To me, it's not just the work. It's really something I love doing. Right, exactly, and you know if you think about the work that you do on a daily basis, is really enclosed, right? It's you and it's the organization you're working for. Yeah, right. The things you're doing now with a podcast or writing. Is out to the masses, right? And so you get a deeper reach, right? You you build connections, you know, you build relationships. You know, people see value in the content that you produce, and it's about you know you get to. I think a lot of people, and this is especially true for me, in the first 15, 16 years of my career. You know, I was a career counselor and I was a manager and things like that, but it was really contained to the organization that I was working in, right? Yeah.

[12:16] Took me a while to figure out. Well, now, you know, I've I've done that for so long. How can I figure out how to provide knowledge and experience to more people at a time, right? And it's through podcasts, and it's through blogging, and it's through writing articles, and it's through one-on-one connections with various people that aren't directly to my to individuals day-to-day dealings in the organization, right? So, you know, and like you said, a lot of times developers don't get it. They're they're self-contained, they're introverted, and it's fine. Again, just because you do it doesn't mean it's the right fit for everyone else to do it, right? But you've been successful at it. You're um you're inspirational, right? And what may happen is other people who have been in their comfort zone for a while may learn from you and say, well, if she can do it and he's successful at it, let me go ahead and try to do it as well. Right, and it just takes you know a couple of stepping stones in the right direction to start to build the confidence behind them. I'm sure when you first started, you may be a little resistant or you just didn't wonder sure it's going to work, right? But but now you're doing whatever one a week. I mean I saw your list of guests that you've had, and I was surprised that you've had so many in such a short amount of time. Right, and so you're really the momentum is behind you now, and you're off to the races, and you're asking people, and they're accepting, and you're just building more and more and more of a of a brand and getting people to connect with you.

[13:47] Yeah, definitely. And also another point is that you learned a lot from my guest. Yeah. Yeah. You're in the same time you're sharing the the knowledge. It's like a win-win for a lot of people. That's it. It's it's two people having a conversation, you know, and it's sharing your thoughts, sharing my thoughts. We may not agree on anything, everything, and that's fine. We may agree on a lot. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. It's just about sharing knowledge with each other, and hopefully, the things that we say helps resonate with folks. You know, like yesterday, I had a conversation with someone. She's a Salesforce newbie, and I don't have, you know, this book of. Of of things that will work for everybody or a silver bullet to help you get your first job. But I do have some thoughts and opinions on everything, right? And so if if someone's willing to reach out to me, I'm willing to share my thoughts. And you know, yesterday was like Chris, this is some good material that you're giving me. I'll write some things down and start to execute on them. Right, and so it's just you know there's just new things that are brought to the conversation that people may not have thought about initially, but when you have those conversations, just you know thoughts are are are flying around, and some things may stick and some things may not, but the things that stick that help you continue to advance.

[15:11] Hi, here's a quick note. Don't forget to check the show notes of this episode, where you can find short video teasers, the guest contact information, the important complementary materials, and my own learning points, among many other useful information. In addition, I have also started a YouTube channel to share important stuff I learned from my guest. If you are serious about your Salesforce developer journey, you should definitely consider subscribing to this channel. And obviously, the name of this YouTube channel is Salesforce Way. Now let's get back to the show, shall we?

[15:57] And also, Chris, I know that you're quite active in the social network, especially in LinkedIn. So, what's your thoughts for the other developers or Salesforce professionals? Should they also jump into LinkedIn to be more open, more active? I I think so, right? And I don't say that just because I am, but you know. It's you gain more from it than you lose, right? When you're actively engaged on a social channel, right? And you know, especially if you're in between careers or you're looking for your first break, right? Because I know a lot of times people are not active on LinkedIn. When they have a job because they're busy focusing on other things. But if you just spend a little time after hours or on the weekends just to engage with folks, it just builds relationships for the long term, you know. And it's not something where it's just you need a job because when that happens, it's too late, right? And so, so what I try to evangelize and stresses building bridges before you need to cross them. Okay, and in order to do that, spend a little time, either whether it's half an hour in the morning or an hour and a half on the on the weekends, whatever it is, you know, just start making connections, building some relationships, having good conversations, sharing things of value with them. Because again, when you need something, you've already laid the framework in place so someone will be willing to help you. Like for now,

[17:27] for example, let me just take my experience. You know, one thing I tell candidates, I don't. My client base is very small, right? I just, I'm a, I'm a small fish in a big pond of recruiting. But what I try to do is build connections with hiring managers. Okay, and so what I tell candidates is. I may not have a direct position for you, but if you're looking at a position somewhere else and you see that I'm connected to someone that's a hiring manager at that organization, let me know and I'll be happy to do an introduction for you. And I think most of the time so far. They've been willing to accept that message and at least respond back to me. My thought is that I've been able to provide content, build a brand, show awareness, trying to give back, so they are willing to at least acknowledge my message, right? Because I've built that. That you know, kind of foundation for a long time now, right? And so that just, and the same, just because it happens for me doesn't mean it can't happen for everybody. I'm just giving you an example of the things that I've done to help others have a direct connection to a hiring manager. And the same thing can happen for a developer, right? Just start getting on there, building those connections, having conversations, because you never know when it could be needed in the long run. Hmm. I have read some books talking about your network, especially the social network. It strongly recommend you to connect the people around you based on their

[18:57] needs, like what you just mentioned. If there's a candidates and you know a higher man manager, then connect them to together. You you don't have to be the middle points. You connect them, they will build build up their relationship. That's how to, how would I say, to solidify your own network, right? The more connections they have, you are more strong in the. Exactly, and it's hard to understand and put it together. Just because most people are looking for a direct. Receiving something directly, immediately, my direct gratification, right? But that a lot of times is not how it works, right? It's about giving, giving, giving. There's Gary V. You know, most people know Gary V. is right. He's got a book called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, right? And and and the philosophy around that is. Just continue to help and give people information and content and things of value, because when you ask for something, the foundation is there and most likely it's going to be receptive. Right and you know and I know I understand completely that it's a mental block for people to understand how that works and it took me a while to get through it as well but then once you cross that barrier you start to realize that things start to click and you see more success. Yep. I'm also following Gary on all different platforms.

[20:27] Yeah, we will also put the the the book you just mentioned in our show notes because, under some of his other books, I I would say all his best selling books are are all good, right? Right. So yeah, that's a kind of like a mental exercise you really need to do, and then see the benefit and feel sense it, and then you you across that bridge. Yeah, definitely. Right. Right. And and you know, leaving me. I don't know. Years ago, I'm working 60, 70 hours a week, right, in a consulting capacity. I didn't have time. I didn't care to do it, right. So I get it, right. But the thing that I've learned now is it's important to to to make time because I think it will help you in the long run if you start just chipping away at it gradually, right? And and so I get it. It's not for everybody, and people may not feel comfortable doing it, and that's fine. But I think if there's a little bit of Inclination internally to to start step out of your comfort zone. That's a good way to start. And it's social. You know what I'm saying? It's not like they can come and chop your legs off, right? It's not a social platform where what's the worst thing that could happen is say something negative or ignore you. Okay, big deal. It's like there's no there's no detriment to your health or your physical well-being in this case. I think it's still a mental kind of blocker there

[21:58] because you know sometimes some of my friends or colleagues or people around me they say ah you shared some good stuff over there on LinkedIn. But those people never click like. It's like they are like a ghosts in LinkedIn. They're every day there, but they never share any thoughts or click a like or give comments. I don't know. I mean, I accept everybody has his own opinion. I just don't quite get why they are doing like this. Right, right. And the thing is, I don't do the best of this. I do check out the likes and the comments when I post something because it just tells me it was engaged. But. You know, you don't. The thought is you shouldn't be doing that for the for the self gratification, because that's that's not the right way to think about it, right? And and and it's just about. Getting out there and exposing yourself, right, and and and feeding people your your thoughts, right. Some posts I put out there gets hundreds of likes. Some get get ten, right. And and so one thing it does tell me is. There are some things when I talk about marketing and content strategy is like okay I need to look at that so I can understand what resonates with people more so than others right and so to just kind of curtail my my content based on that yeah there's no shortcut you just need to practice and try different things and see which one has the best feedback and then improve on top of that. That's right, and if you do it daily or

[23:28] weekly, you know you start to fall into a pattern, right, or a habit, right, and and then just becomes second nature. Like and the thing that once you start doing it, it's crazy how this works because then it's in the back of your mind, right, and then you know you think about okay, I want to post something tomorrow. I need to think about what to post, and as you have your daily day activities. You say, oh, that that just happened. I can write about that tomorrow, right? Because it's because it's something that you're in a habit of doing every day or every few days or whatever it is. And you know, you just take a little notepad or a journal, whatever, or even on your phone. And my phone is full of notes as far as I'm driving to a customer site and a new thought pops in my head, or I just had a conversation with somebody, like. Okay, that that that could that could be a good post. So I put some notes in my my phone, and then the next day I have it there, and I'm ready to post it. Exactly. I think we talked a lot about stepping out of comfort zone, right? We're from different angles, social or your your practical work. And in addition to that, I think you also mentioned, are you just taking something as granted, or are you also given? So that's also one of the things you shared with me. Could you open this point up as well? Sure, sure. So most people don't reciprocate well with with takers, right? So what I mean by a taker is just saying here, here's

[24:58] what I need, right? Most people. Get pissed off when you tell them about what you need. They don't care, right? What you need, right? They care about themselves, right? And they care probably about helping others as well, right? If you approach that with some humility along the way, right? And so the thing that I just Offends me somewhat. It's people that are just posting their resume on LinkedIn, saying, "I'm available for a job. Help me." Okay, you know, I have to imagine that the acceptance rate on that is slow, as low to none. Okay, because what have you done for anyone else along the way? Right, and so just you know, there's a takers don't succeed as as well as givers, right? And so if you can get through that kind of mental understanding that the more that you give out, the more you end up receiving in the long run, right? And so that's kind of what I mean about giving and taking, and and so far I've seen success at it, and and I enjoy it, you know, it's something that you have to enjoy doing, right? I enjoy helping others, I enjoy having those conversations because what it does is two things, it helps me. Build relationships. It helps me understand struggles that people are going through, right? And then it helps me take that information and share it with other people because I'm sure they're seeing they're having the same problems that

[26:29] the candidate I just spoke to was having, right? Now, for for developers specifically, you know, using GitHub and and and blogging and talking about the things that you've learned along the way will help others succeed. And then you never know how it comes back around, right? And it's crazy how this works, right? You may give things away to let's just say five people, right, or five people who interacted with it, and they and those people don't. Give you something back in return, but three days later, someone that you didn't even know about decides to come to you and provides you something of value. Yeah. Right. And and so it's not like a one for one between giving and taking, right? It's more about give, give, give, and something eventually will come around and come into your benefit. I think that happens a lot in life, regards of jobs and you and your careers, or just life in general. I think it's also for maybe built in in the human beings, like the gene is that we we get happier when we give give stuff out, right? That is exactly. I have a note here that I want to do a blog post about. Is okay. You know there is there's genetics or genes that says that you know if you're let's say for example if you're running into you're starting to get depressed because you're not landing a position. Okay, and you've been through multiple interviews, and you're sitting on your resume. You know what I did when I was in between

[27:59] positions? I went to volunteer. Right? I went to the I went to the homeless shelter and spent four hours a day feeding the homeless. Okay. And it got me through those difficult times. It got my mind off of sending my resume out and applying positions and being in my office depressed. Right. It got me doing good things. Right. And good doing good deeds. And then over time, it helped build my confidence back up, right, and helps me dig myself out of a hole, basically. So yeah, there there is some some research and there's some studies and there's some genetics that come into play as far as doing things for others will help get you through any kind of mental frustrations or depression that you're currently running through. Yeah. This is also kind of counterintuitive, for other people. So, so at least I can recommend is you have to take a a leap, and then do it, and then see how it feels. So, no matter how we say it here, you can't really. Sense that maybe that far. That's right. That's right. You you don't know unless you start trying, right? Another thing is, if you just want to again write a blog, right? And and if you have a web page or. You know, doing LinkedIn maybe too much because it goes out to the masses. But just publish it somewhere. I don't care where it's at, right? And and write some thoughts down, and write

[29:29] something that you learned, right? And give something of value out there. And you keep doing it, and it just builds that mental fortitude to push through. Right, and it makes you believe it or not. It makes you feel good. Like if I have a bad day, and I have bad days all the time with interviews that go awry, or candidates not showing for the interview, or they're late, or hiring managers that blow me off. You know I get I get thrown punches daily, okay. But the one thing I do know that if I come in the next morning and I write about something, it resets, right? And if if you do that, it's hard to explain and to get your your mind around it. But you do it, you keep doing it. It makes it makes the world a better place. Yeah, and to me is that it definitely helped me to step up and step out of my comfort zone. Once I can build the habit and practice and get more efficient on these things, so exactly like you just mentioned, is that you don't need think about it anymore. You don't need to prepare much about it anymore. It's just part of your daily routine. So right yeah right and and be patient I would say so that's right happens in a day so that's right that's exactly right and and one thing that some people were talking about kind of being introverted right and you know the thing about Salesforce is it's a very

[31:00] community driven. Technology, okay, and I don't think there's anything else like it where there's so many people that are willing to welcome people with open arms, right? And and there's a tribe there, right? And you know if you're an introvert, you're in the best. Capacity you can be in if you're a Salesforce developer to reach out to other people in the community that would welcome you with open arms. But you have to ask, right? People just, you know, people are. Most people are not just gonna go out and try to find people to help, right? You have to go out there and say, hey, Chris, hey, she, you know, this is what I'm currently running into. Do you mind having a 15-minute conversation with me, or a coffee, or lunch, or a phone call, just to help me understand your point of view on the situation? And I think a majority of people in the Salesforce ecosystem will welcome that conversation with open arms. It's just how things have been organized, and some of the values that are part of of Salesforce and the the industry and the company itself. That there's a lot of value to be had and a lot of warmth to be given. Right, thanks for all this information sharing. I think it's quite useful. One more question I still want to ask you is, as developers, so we want the hands-on stuff. We love to do hands-on stuff. So in our CV,

[32:30] how can we? Put things into our CV. How do we build those kind of skill sets or showcases? You know, along the journey. So how should we differentiate us from the tangible stuff? Correct. So, you know your your CV is really just kind of a a front facing for your work, right? Just the highlights of what you've done. Now, good CVs that I enjoy reading is they have a link to their GitHub, right? Or they have a link a link to their blog, right? Or they have a link to their portfolio of digital assets that they built out, right? So. A hiring manager or a recruiter can easily take it from the resume to see what they've done, right, and see how they've actually applied what they know into real world examples, right. And not enough people do that, and I'm not sure why, because they've done the work already. You just need to to publish it, right, and make it available because it starts a dialogue. And it's not so much about being right or wrong about how you did something. That's not really the point in doing this. It's just about being able to show others what you can do and how you've been able to take a challenge and build a solution around it, right? And be able to have a talking point around it. It's not saying, well, why did you write it this way versus that way, right? That that is not the point of doing this. It's the point about just being a differentiator and showing that you know how to apply

[34:00] concepts and figure out how to. Troubleshoot and solve problems. Because a lot of time when I talk with people around me is that they have already, like you said, they have already done the job. But sometimes it's mixed with the customer information. They don't, they cannot publish that out. So it takes some effort to do. It does splits. But the thing to me is that that's the fun part as well, you know. You're learning, right? You're learning how to do that. Yeah, you're exactly right, and you can even just just it doesn't have to be everything that you built out. Just take a prototype. Right and and build on the prototype of what you've already done into your dev org and using dummy data right that's available to you instead of using customer specific information right there's ways to get around that right you know I and some stuff is so simple like I had a Salesforce admin she had a portfolio she just had a PowerPoint presentation about things that she's worked on it's just a slideshow about here's the different things that she built and she just whiteed out. the The customer information, right? And that's fine. We the point of having that is not the information, the data. It's the solution that you built, right? And you know, you can't tell me that more than one organization isn't using a very similar solution, right? I mean, especially when it's generic. Let's just say, like using Flow or Process Builder or writing an Apex trigger, right? All that stuff is applicable

[35:30] to most organizations, right? You just need to be able to talk about what you did that was specific to the requirements that were on hand. Right, and keep it keep it I guess generic enough so they so it's not proprietary to the organization you built it for. I think there's ways around you know worrying about sharing proprietary information. Yeah. I think we share a lot of thoughts with similar ideas, and yeah. So I think you tend to like echo what I'm doing now, and especially the things I enjoy doing. I will keep doing like this podcast. Good. And definitely, we will connect further and share thoughts. I will also read your articles. Still give you feedbacks over there. Okay, that's great, Xia. Listen, thanks for having me on. I've enjoyed this conversation. Hopefully, others will find value in it as well. Yeah, thanks, Chris. It was great having you here. Yep. Talk to you next time. Okay, thank you. Okay, next time. Take care. Bye

[36:33] bye.

[37:47] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh